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What is your answer to this argument?

Thu, 2009-02-05 18:06 — beatlesbright
Question:: 
"Finite minds cannot understand infinite minds" This of course says that God is infinite and we humans with out finite minds cannot and will never understand god and the stuff he does. <br> For example we think all the old testament stuff is bad. Somebody could say say "you may think god is being bad, but you cannot understand god and his ways, stop looking at him as soon kind of human, his powers are higher." <br> Somebody can say this for all the bad stuff in the bible or when there is a difficult part to understand about god. <br> we They just say "His powers are higher and you will never understand it, so don't criticize because you're a weak mind compared to his."
Atheist Answer: 

Shortest possible answer: "Says you."

It was Christians, among others, who declared that God is beyond understanding, after failing to reconcile His destructive actions in the Bible (and other catastrophes since) with His supposed existence as an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and entirely benevolent being with an interest in humans. It's one of the many approaches to theodicy, and probably the most dismissive and least satisfying.

Remember that this is the being from whom fundamentalist Christians attempt to take their entire moral code, word for word. Yet they admit that nobody, let alone them, understands why God supposedly commits such atrocities or allows them to happen. If they can't understand this side of Him, they really have no understanding of God's own moral code at all, and they're flying blind.

One reply would be that God's moral code applies only to God and not to humans. Some of God's supposed instructions to humankind are pretty clear and just about sensible (like the Ten Commandments), but other times he instructs armies to wipe out entire races, so it's not as if His unexplained lapses in benevolence never affect us.

In short, as long as Christians declare that we cannot understand the God of the Bible, using Him as the ultimate arbiter of morality (or anything else) is a shot in the dark.

- SmartLX

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Thu, 2009-02-12 09:14 — Anonymous Coward (not verified)

Additionally

Invariably, the Xians that use the "You can't understand god" argument also claim that god is good. I like to turn it around on them and point out that they can't have it both ways. If they wish to assert that we don't have enough knowledge or cognitive capacity in order to judge god as being evil for his many bouts of genocide, then we similarly can't turn around and proclaim that we have enough knowledge or cognitive capacity to declare that god is good.

Mon, 2009-02-16 10:18 — On Fire for Christ (not verified)

Who created you and the rest

Who created you and the rest of the world and the earth and everthing out there. Please do not say there was a big bang, because it is more hilarious to believe in the big bang that in a living and more real that us God

Mon, 2009-02-16 17:53 — SmartLX

Big Bang and assumptions

It's not hilarious, though maybe it is a little funny. "Big Bang" is a simple and humourous name given to an event which all astronomy and physics tells us must have happened a long time ago: the universe expanded outwards from a single point. It explains the expanding universe, it predicted the existence of cosmic background radiation (in fact, the later discovery of that radiation more or less confirmed the theory) and there are a great many different ways in which it could have come about.

Just think about what you've asked. You said "Who created..." You've assumed right away that everything was created, and by a personality of some sort (or else you'd have said "What created..."). With those two assumptions, if the answer isn't a god it's got to be something like a god. In the same paragraph, you present the idea of your god, who according to believers was not created. You make an exception only when it suits you. Why can't the universe be the same way and have always existed (even prior to the Big Bang)? That way you don't need a god at all.

Sat, 2009-02-21 03:36 — Ryo (not verified)

Right on SmartLX. Awesome

Right on SmartLX. Awesome answer. Though I hope the person who reads it have the logical mind to understand it.

I just stumbled onto your site looking for recordings of "Ask the atheist" from Tom Leykis. It's great that I did. I'm a atheist myself before I even knew the word atheist. I just didn't know that I was in a "group" (or lack of).

Regarding the OP's question, I really think that it's a cop-out by saying we don't have the mind to understand "god."

If so, then how do believers understand what god really wants? What is god's real reason? If OP really believes what he says, then he him/herself would not understand god either. Anyone who say "I think god......." will not work anymore because they, according to OP, do not have the capacity to understand what god wants either!

Sat, 2009-02-21 06:09 — SmartLX

Thanks, Ryo. I'd never

Thanks, Ryo. I'd never heard of Leykis, but I don't think he inspired the name of this site. (It's a common idea; there's also www.asktheatheists.com and www.askanatheist.org.)

In moments when this kind of uncertainty surfaces in the minds of believers (and it does happen), it's comforting to rely on the usual religious "authorities": priests, ministers, televangelists, holy texts or perceived messages from God himself. Any of these can itself be questioned, but it works in a pinch.