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As an "Atheist" would you consider this hypothesis?

Tue, 2008-11-11 22:57 — reapstar
Question:: 
In a Universe where duality is observed to be the most common factor of existence, it is safe to assume that energy can only fundamentally exist in one of two states, positive or negative, when you couple this information with laws such as every particle has an anti particle it kind of makes sense, the only thing is that there is more to it, a particle that does not have an anti-particle, is its own anti-particle, this means that it exists in two states at once, which is technically impossible(on our scale) unless you take quantum mechanics into account, when you understand the fundamentals of quantum mechanics you will understand that there is really three states energy can exist in, positive, neutral and negative, which can be written as such A+B=C where C is merely the product of A and B simply existing, so to recap, Neutral doesnt really exist, yet it does exist simultaneously, Neutral IS our universe, the "housing" or vacuum that we observe around us, We also refer to this as Matter, Matter houses the energy which defines what particle it is to be, the periodic table shows us which energy levels(Ev) each element requires to be stable, if there is more, it is radiated away into the vacuum where it will be added to another particle, if it is less, then it will keep loosing Ev untill it reaches a lighter stable element. So what does this have to do with god then... Well, if everything we can comprehend is made from energy and our consciousness is made from energy, is it not then safe to assume that collectively as a consciousness, WE are god... "the whole equals more than the sum of its parts". Anyway imagine the collective mind power of every conscious being in the universe... how godly would that be... God manifests "himself" in various forms... God sustains and nourishes god cannot be created or destroyed... Thats the bullshit they tried to brainwash me with as a child. This is the ammo I have to fire in retaliation!! I am looking forward to your reply, thank you in advance :-) Howard
Atheist Answer: 

Blimey, that's a hunka hunka burnin' pseudoscience if ever I saw one. Thanks for bringing it in.

First I'll put on my fact-checking hat.
- The two most commonly accepted examples of duality in our universe are the wave-particle duality of light and the decayed/not decayed state of unobserved unstable atoms (often explained using Schroedinger's Cat), and they're not even mentioned here.
- There probably isn't antimatter equivalent to all matter, or vice versa. We observe tremendous asymmetry, for example the fact that our part of the universe appears to contain almost entirely matter and almost no natural antimatter.
- In contrast to antimatter, which we can not only observe but deliberately produce and store, negative energy is still entirely hypothetical and may not exist at all. Antimatter in fact appears to consist of positive energy.
- There's an old saying that if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics. The author of this argument apparently thinks he understands quantum mechanics.
- A vacuum may not be neutral at all, according to zero-point energy theory.
- Matter doesn't just house energy, it is energy in another form. It's really not separate from it.

Ultimately, none of this has anything to do with consciousness, so if the argument had left out everything before "So what does this have to do with god then..." it wouldn't make any less sense.

Next up, I'll put on my targeting scope and go for the central point of this shemozzle.

If consciousness is energy, just because it's made of the same stuff as everything else doesn't give it power over everything else. Our collective consciousnesses have no godlike influence over the rest of reality. Besides, we don't have a collective consciousness or "hive mind" as we understand the concept so we've got no way of combining our mental powers to physically affect the universe. All we can do is move our own bodies and get things done through ordinary teamwork. Not much of a god, are we?

Even the idea of consciousness as independent energy is a contested premise. It requires a position of mind-brain duality (that is, mutual independence) that most atheists don't share. Consciousness in any materialist view is simply a function of the brain itself, kept running by electrical impulses which have no external influence and no autonomy. It's like a computer program: wipe the computer, and it disappears.

Finally, there's a more general point to be made, so I'll go up in my mehve to see the big picture.

If when considering the world at large you feel you must posit the existence of a major hypothetical entity, like a collective consciousness or a Prime Mover or a Designer (none of which are likely necessary), you're free to call it anything you like. However, if you arbitrarily give it an existing name which also refers to an separate, well-established concept, it's an unsupported link between the two entities. It's a big problem with the Transcendental Argument and all others which end with, "We call this creator/lawmaker/intelligence/feeling/cupcake God." Even if the argument is sound, the entity you've successfully argued for may well not be your god at all, and it's a dishonest leap to assume that it is.

I hope this is the kind of ammo you're looking for.

- SmartLX

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Tue, 2008-11-11 21:13 — reapstar

forgot to add

(->|<+) OR
((-/-)+(+/+)=(-/+)) OR
((-1)+(+1)=0) OR
((Xn)+(Yn)=(Zn)) OR
Yin-Yang... Meaning Collective Consciousness = God

Wed, 2008-11-12 08:50 — reapstar

(->|

(->|<+) OR
((-/-)+(+/+)=(-/+)) OR
((-1)+(+1)=0) OR
((Xn)+(Yn)=(Zn)) OR
Yin-Yang... Meaning Collective Consciousness = God

Have you read a book called shadows?

A proposal for defining a common mechanism responsible for the quantum properties of mass and energy and the relativistic properties of space and time in terms of the existence of four *spatial* dimensions and a continuous non-quantized form of mass and energy.

I dont think I included enough detail in my original question :-)

Just to make a point, Time is merely a product of spatial expansion, nothing more, nothing less, on the quantum scale, everything happens simultaneously, hence the concept of time doesn't apply.

It has been experimentally verified that energy in itself is not quantized because a photon can have any frequency and therefore any energy greater than zero or less than infinity. Additionally, the equation defining the relationship between mass and energy, E=m*c^2, also indicates that mass is completely convertible to one or more photons with energies greater than zero or less than infinity.

So I do agree with the fact that matter is energy(interchangeable) but like you say in a different form, everything in this universe is made from energy, if it isn't, it doesn't exist.

The only noticeable difference between positively and negatively charged particle would be its "spin".

Which means to me that until energy reaches a certain quantized density(within our vacuum) it is fundamentally the same substance that appears simultaneously at every point in what we comprehend to be space/time.

If energy cannot be created or destroyed, where did it come from and where does it go(our consciousness) when we die.

The way you explain your answer, it sounds like you believe that when you die that is it :-)

Anyway, if Humans have the luxury of being able to evolve for another few million years, surely by then, we would acquire through knowledge and technology the "power" of "god".

Thu, 2008-11-13 20:40 — SmartLX

What is this?

I'm curious, Reapstar. Are you trying to insert something else which just comes out looking like '(->|'?