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how do you contradict this?

Fri, 2008-11-28 02:33 — amber123
Question:: 
ok i am probably becoming a nuisance but oh well. my question this time is i was arguing with my mother (what the hell else is new) and she told me that even though humanity has found ways of figuring out how planets and stars form now that when God created everything he controlled time and space and could do anything such as creating our earth before our sun for example even though that isn't how it works. my mom told me that god doesn't follow logic becausae he made logic i mean she asked me about what is logical about a blind man seeing or a dead guy coming alive well truth is their is no logic to it so how do i aswer that? mom says that seeing as god is all powerful then he can do whatever he wants, but to me thats sounds like a penny explanation for the stuff in the bible that makes no logicaal sense. i told her that everything has a logical explanation whether we know it or not and that even if there was a god why would he set up a logical route for planets and stars to be formed and then completely disregard it? so really i don't know how to answer these things because it seems eveytime i ask a question of something in the bible that completely disregard sience,history etc they always give me the "well God can do anything answer" which i still see as a penny answer.
Atheist Answer: 

Amber, it might be a typo but I've never seen this use of the word "penny" before. From context I'm assuming that it means "inadequate".

What your mother says is true in a way. If a god exists and is truly omnipotent, then it can do anything it wants to: form the solar system in the wrong order, make it look billions of years older than it really is, give a man the power to cure blindness by touch, and bring the same man back from the dead. Such a being, hypothetically, can change or suspend the laws of physics to achieve its goals, and also manipulate or bypass whatever constant logical constraints the universe may have.

This can have varying effects on an argument, depending. It's basically useless to argue that an omnipotent god can't do something. The possibily that a god is omnipotent pretty much guarantees that a god is possible (since it could be hiding anywhere). However, that which is possible is not necessarily true.

If we conclude from research that the Bible's stories are illogical, then we would have to dismiss logic to believe them. That means we would need an entirely different reason to believe, or we wouldn't do such a thing. So what reasons do people have to believe in the Bible besides logic?

It may be an emotional reason, like simply wanting there to be a Heaven. It might be a default, since one's family might always have believed and one follows along by sheer trust. It might be because of apparent personal experience of God: while at a charismatic church someone is "taken by the Holy Spirit" and starts speaking in tongues. (I think this is a combination of over-enthusiasm and subtle hypnosis, but it certainly does happen.) Otherwise, maybe someone has a particularly convincing dream or hallucination of God. What the hell, maybe God really does exist and comes down to say hi to some lucky sod.

So think about the people you know, for example your mother. Why does she believe, if not because of logic? (Relating back to your other question, has she ever used a bible dictionary to sort out an apparent contradiction herself?). Most importantly (and this is the reply to her which I think you're looking for), why should you believe the stories in the absence of substantive evidence or logical support as far as you can tell?

- SmartLX

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Mon, 2008-12-01 20:51 — amber123

ok i see

hey, maybe it's just an Idaho thing but the phase "peenyt excuse" is big here. but yes i meant inadiquate.

as far as your advice thanks though it really didn't help much i geuss i won't even know though i'll always keep searching.
your right christians do have us in a corner because if there is this sopposedly all powereful god well he could defy physics and everything else but i still am sceptical.

in my opinion religion is like a house of cards and faith like a string and i refuse to hand my moral and ethical beliefs on something that flimsy.

thanks for your help anyway

Mon, 2008-12-01 21:50 — SmartLX

Sorry I couldn't help.

Yep, I think it's just an Idaho thing. I can't even find an example on Google.

I kind of knew I wouldn't be of much direct help in your ongoing discussions with your mother, or your search for a definite answer for yourself. If folks are willing to believe something just because it hasn't been proved wrong, they're untouchable, and very frustrating to those who actually need a positive reason to believe. The flipside is that they find it difficult to understand why others don't believe, and will preach fruitlessly until the cows come home.

Best of luck in your continued research. We're here if you need to check anything. Let us know what you come up with, if you think it'll help others.